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I will undoubtedly offend and / or anger some folks by voicing my opinion but that is to be expected when stepping into the quagmire of highly charged emotional issues and Jan Brewer’s courageous decision to veto of Arizona’s SB1602, aka: “The Religious Freedom Bill”. 

I have not read the bill, but that has never stopped any congressman or senator from voting for a bill. The bill was advertised as “Religious Freedom” when in reality it is quite the opposite. Perhaps the Conservatives are finally learning from the Democrats? I think that is exactly what has happened.

When I read the first clause in the First Amendment to our Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...”

I recognize the fact that this is the FIRST part of the FIRST amendment to our Constitution and put it into the context of the times in which it was authored. The framers of our Constitution lived in a time when the individuals personal and professional potential was at the mercy of which ever church the reigning monarch attended this week and monarchs changed “churches” as was convenient to them politically and personally.

The “Achilles Heel” and constant fodder for the lawyers has been the term “establishment”. In pre-American civilization the term “Church” was very clear; i.e. Protestant or Catholic or Jewish, etc. In common practice, it has meant the transference of religious doctrine into the public arena of civil and criminal law.

And that is why Jan Brewer’s decision to veto the “Religious Freedom” bill was the right thing to do under our Constitution. Either you believe in our Constitution or you do not.

To be quite candid, it would not surprise me that if somewhere in the back allies of political machinations the bill was fostered by agents of the Muslim Brotherhood.

That can’t be! No Way! How could that be?...you ask.

We The People never seem to learn. 

The great mountains of our fantastic planet were created by massive upheavals in the earth’s crust. And this nation was created by a massive upheaval in the prevailing social order. The concept of tyrants and kings and royalty and all those rigid and oppressive forms of government were thrown aside in favor of a brave new concept built upon the bedrock belief in the freedom of the individual. We The People, the freedom loving people from every point of the globe, joined together to create the greatest mountain of a nation that God ever gifted to mankind.

So what is the most efficient method by which we can destroy a mountain and erase it from the face of the earth? God has been doing that since “Day One of Creation”. It is called erosion.

Ask any native born West Virginian about “Hydraulic Mining” or “Hydraulicking”. It is the method by which mining companies use huge high powered “water hoses” to remove a mountainside so that they can collect the treasures buried within. Erosion strategically and forcefully applied.

And that my friends is exactly what the Democrats / Liberals / Progressives have been doing to our country for decades; aided by those of equal intolerance from across the political spectrum. They “erode” every supporting foundation structure of our once great nation a pebble at a time until the entire house will inevitably collapse.

I have long been frustrated by the apparent hierarchy of priorities within the GOP which in the final analysis has simply proven to be pandering to special interest groups. I have threatened to erect billboards proclaiming: “Vote Republican - The American Taliban” because there is no difference in the fact that both want to codify (turn into civil and criminal law) religious doctrine.

I am a (relatively) healthy male and I like women - ask any of my ex-wives. And I recognize that virtually every family tree has at least one gay / lesbian member.  And yes, I have a number of friends in the gay and lesbian communities. Live in San Francisco for a decade or so and so will you or you live in a closet.

My wife and I ran our own company for a couple of decades or so and decided that when you offer services to the “public”, that meant all people - regardless of race, religion, political affiliation, or whomever they chose to share their life with.

When Jesus walked the earth he embraced the leper and prostitute and the wealthy and the poor.

How does one call one’s self a “Christian” if they are not willing to follow the example of their savior?

The Liberal / Progressive elements have successfully transmuted the first phrase of the First Amendment to our Constitution to mean “freedom FROM religion” and if they stay true to form, the name of “God” will be forever banned but using the ingenuity of the “mealy mouth”, the name of “Allah” will be allowed.

If a “business” wants to exclude any group for whatever reason, then perhaps they should follow the example of Oklahoma and other states. “Back in the day” beer distributors were prone to stamp their containers with “OK” to indicate “Oklahoma Distribution Only” because under Oklahoma law, beer could not contain more than 3.2 percent alcohol wile other states allowed almost twice that. And hard liquor was sold only through state controlled “ABC Stores” (true also in Virginia and other states). And it was illegal for “bars” to sell hard liquor. So the answer was to create “bottle clubs” where a person could “buy” a membership card and place their favorite liquor behind the bar with their membership number on it and then order a “setup” - which could be a “mixer” of choice or just a glass - with their own liquor in it.

So let those businesses who wish to force their religious convictions on the general public might consider following that model. Establish a “members only club”. And see how well they do economically.

Hobby Lobby is one of the finest examples I can think of.

No one can question their deep and abiding faith.

And yet they serve the public - all the public.

As it should be.

“DocRock”

Views: 1223

Tags: #firstamendment, #janbrewer, #redinkflowing, #religiousfreedom

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Comment by John Mainhart on March 9, 2014 at 10:54am
Nancy The Bible speaks to all of us , not just Christians. God wants to save us all through His great love for each and everyone of us and is only waiting to enliven the Faith that is in our souls put there by Him.
Comment by Karl Ward Behrens on March 8, 2014 at 10:28pm
Tim Hennum-
Well thought out and articulated comments. Thanks for being with the minority (the previous majority) willing to make a bold stand.
Comment by Tim Hennum on March 8, 2014 at 9:54pm

Nancy, I'll take the bait and get right to the point.  

If you believe homosexual behavior is genetic, then what do you think about pedophiles or priests who pursue little boys?  Yes, I realize one type is (supposedly) consenting adults, and the other includes minors, so don't even bother.  Genetics is genetics whether adult or minor.

How can you avoid the hypocrisy in this type of thinking?

Comment by Tim Hennum on March 8, 2014 at 9:27pm

Darwin,

First, I'm disappointed that you didn't (couldn't?) answer Rick's follow up question. 

Second, your comment "Nobody can be certain whether any specific individual is or is not gay; they walk among us."  would be great if it were true.  That was the premise of DADT, remember?  …Which, sadly, has now been struck down.  So now agendas are once again free to be forced down our conservative throats.

Third, how is Jan Brewer (or any other politician) so courageous when they make decisions to save their political career?  This is the complete opposite of courageous and one of the biggest problems with politicians today!  There's nothing noble about making decisions to save one's career!  Courageous would mean standing up and taking relentless heat from the liberal media for your deep convictions.

Fourth, I’m sensing that for some reason you are implying that due to the fact that Muslims are also against homosexual behavior, perhaps we should avoid aligning with mutual beliefs.  Truth is truth, no matter who believes it.  If a “good” person believes a certain truth and a “bad” person also believes this same truth, then this does not undermine the truth!

Lastly, so many try to brush the homosexual issue (among other “controversial” issues) under the rug in hopes of focusing on more “major” issues like the economy.  Let me be very clear…we were not successful as a nation due to our own strength.  Our country has been extremely blessed, not because of the talents of man, but due to the absolutely amazing way our creator has showered us with abundance because of our attempt to found our country on His Word.  Until we turn from our immoral, defiant ways we will continue to see our country decline in so many ways.   Again, it’s not about focusing on what seems most important to us, but rather what is most important to God. 

I leave you with 2 Chronicles 7:  “If my people…will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways …I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”         

Comment by John Mainhart on March 8, 2014 at 5:21pm
Nancy As far as God's role in destroying people is concerned, He gave the whole world to Adam and Eve and they proved to be unfaithful. He gave the whole world with its goodness to those who followed Adam and Eve and in the end all but Noah and his family proved to be unfaithful..The Human's he created after the flood also proved to be unfaithful, so He decided to pick a tribe from those souls He created after the flood and teach them personally to be faithful. The land He promised to this Tribe was occupied by equally rebellious children of God and God by this time knew they would make His Chosen People like those souls throughout history as disobedient as in the past. Perhaps the punishment fit the crime. since He gave us everything He created and we destroyed a lot of it by doing evil. Then He sent His own Son to personally instruct us in our own consciences and you can see how unfaithful we have been since He died for us. Since all that God created was good and it was our unfaithfulness that has caused the problems I would be reluctant to blame Him for our folly. If a soul is Faithful to God good things happen to him and ultimately he goes to heaven to be forever happy. A great ending to a story in which God ask ,us to be faithful and will forgive our evils if we are truly sorry and reward us with eternal salvation
Comment by Nancy Evins on March 8, 2014 at 9:53am

Gee, Karl, I, too think that children deserve both parents. But even in a heterosexual world, they don't always have that. And they have parents, in some cases, who torture their children or who, in some religions, don't get them medical aid because of their beliefs.

I don't know what homosexuality has to do with that. They can be parents, too. And what about priests who, supposedly, don't have children. After all, God said to multiply, didn't He?

No one can deny the AIDS epidemic, but do you think that all diseases are caused by what you deem to be evil? Or just this one? What about all the heterosexual  sexual diseases, such as syphilis, gonorrhea, etc.

And as for your statement that I am telling people t live anyway they want is untrue. By the way, do you do anything on the Sabbath that could be construed as worldly? Do you tithe? Have you or any of your relatives lived without the benefit of marriage?

I just get so annoyed at this holier than thou attitude from those who are committing other sins but because they were not born homosexual, enjoy condemning that that they have no desire to do in the first place.

And, John, you seem to be more reasonable but you are pointing out what we all know about free will, but without acknowledging that supposedly it was God who told the Israelites to go and kill every man, woman, child and animal when they invaded other countries or were fighting their enemies.

So everyone agrees that that is abnormal and evil and just dismiss it (an order by God) but harp on some other thing that is agreeable to the persons indulging in it. I am not talking about pedophilia or rape being acceptable.

It would be hard to go to seminary for three years and not have read the entire Bible. But not many know that it was written by so many different people, not always the ones whose name is included as the author, and revised so many times that it is also important to know why and how it was done.

There were 65 books submitted for the New Testament that were not included. Protestants throw out the Apocrypha and Martin Luther wanted to exclude the book of James, saying it was "an epistle of straw". Over the ages people have seen difficulties with the capriciousness of God  and have portrayed HIm as a more loving Deity that that described in the Old Testament. 

Comment by John Mainhart on March 7, 2014 at 6:58pm
Nancy I've read the entire Bible ,and it represents the Jews as they were. The point of the story is that that humans can do good or evil because they have free will. Just because the bible mentions some of the extremes that people go ,to does not mean that God wishes those things. I believe one of the customs of the Jews was to stone unfaithful women. If you read what our lord ,says about that practice you will see the truth of the matter. As for your final statement I believe that you hurt another soul when you do something unnatural to them for pleasures sake
Comment by Karl Ward Behrens on March 7, 2014 at 6:22pm
Nancy Evins-homosexuals hurt no one? What about hemophiliacs who have died from tainted blood transfusions? What about children who deserve both a father and a mother? What about all the diseases documented by the CDC which have been intensified as a result of homosexual behavior? What about the physical damage done to the bodies of homosexuals themselves as a result of doing acts that are not natural for the human body? If you are a Christian, you don't tell people "live anyway you want and I'm totally fine with it"; you say "Because I care about you and because I love God, I want you to experience God's best for you."
Comment by Nancy Evins on March 7, 2014 at 5:59pm

John, you missed the whole point of my letter.

Yes, I agree, Christ speaks to the Christian. And I agree that our common sense tell us that violating the privacy of others (such as the example you gave ) is wrong. As is pedophilia, wife beating, and certainly the stoning of children who don't obey their parents (though the Bible advocates that, but you don't hear much about it, do you?)

A very learned and Christian minister said that his definition of evil is something that hurts other people.

My point is that we don't condone the things that our common sense tells us are wrong but we condemn those that our common sense tells us that gays are hurting no ones (unless they are doing some of the things that heterosexuals do so frequently), why don't we apply  our common sense there also.

Mr. Booth, I have no idea what you are trying to convey.

Comment by Frank Chance Chenoweth on March 7, 2014 at 9:18am

John,

     Very well put.  Good job. 

--Frank Nitty

 

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