The Tax system from hell!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Phil on August 9, 2011 at 2:49pm

" The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes,
from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several
States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."




This reads so ridiculous. It basically says the feds can rob you for whatever they want.

It strips us of our rights. As does the 17th amendment.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Phil on August 12, 2011 at 11:17pm

The sixteenth wasn't added until 1909. Ratified in 1913 during the progressive era.

The constitution was formed because the articles of confederation were to weak is true.

That was for the original constitution. The 16th was a usurpation the progressives allowed themselves.

Kind of like health care. Couldn't do a thing about no matter how you counted the votes.

The 17th is also a usurpation. This was usurped into the constitution so they could centralize the central government into the control freaks they have begun. Not taking into account the 10th amendment which was added in 1787.





Adoption of the Constitution of 1787 was opposed by a number of well-known patriots including Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and others. They passionately argued that the Constitution would eventually lead to a strong, centralized state power which would destroy the individual liberty of the People. Many in this movement were given the poorly-named tag “Anti-Federalists.”

The Tenth Amendment was added to the Constitution of 1787 largely because of the intellectual influence and personal persistence of the Anti-Federalists and their allies.

It’s quite clear that the Tenth Amendment was written to emphasize the limited nature of the powers delegated to the federal government. In delegating just specific powers to the federal government, the states and the people, with some small exceptions, were free to continue exercising their sovereign powers.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by THOMAS S. WRIGHT on August 12, 2011 at 11:31pm

OVER TAXATION IS THE RUINATION OF AN ECONOMY, we need to rid ourselves of the IRS. 100% TAXATION IS IT'S GOAL. WE PAY TOO MANY TAXES AS IT IS NOW. REPEAL THE 16TH AMENDMENT NOW and find a TAX FRIENDLY SOLUTION. A NATION WITH A GREAT ECONOMY HAS VERY LITTLE DIRECT TAXES ON IT'S PEOPLE. we are headed in the WRONG DIRECTION TAX WISE. NOBODY SHOULD MESS WITH UR PAYCHECK PERIOD!!!.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by johnwk on August 16, 2011 at 8:45pm

Judson wrote:

“There is an ultimate solution. We must repeal the 16th Amendment. End of discussion.”

I agree! But it must be done in such a way as to return to our Constitution’s original tax plan, as our founding fathers intended it to operate. But I’m getting a little ahead of my self. The question is: Tax consumption? YES. Fair Tax or Flat tax? HELL NO!


Like the Dirty Dozen Committee of 12 which is cooking crap up behind closed doors which will then be crammed down the American People’s throats, so too has the “FairTax” been cooked up by Washington Establishment insiders, but it’s not what many of its current supporters think it is. So, let us take a close look at the alleged fair tax, and then a quick look at the flat tax, and finally, let us take a look at our Constitution’s original tax plan which was intended by our founders to force Congress to raise its primary revenue from taxes laid upon consumption.

The “fairtax” proposes to lay a 23 percent tax upon the sale of newly manufactured property, in addition to laying a 23 percent tax upon the sale of services.

So, how will the “fairtax” affect Mary and Joe Tea Party Activists, your ordinary married couple? Mary and Joe have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works a full time job for a company as a house painter, also paints homes and does handyman type work [cuts lawns, carpentry, etc.] on his own time for people living in his community to raise extra cash.

Will the “fairtax” require Mary and Joe in addition to paying a 23 percent tax upon articles of consumption and services they purchase, required them to give the federal government an additional 23 percent tax on the selling price of the property they have in their labor when cleaning and painting homes on weekends, making handyman repairs, baby sitting, cutting their neighbors lawns, etc.? YES!

Will Mary and Joe have to register with government if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor? YES

Will Mary and Joe have to file fairtax returns 12 times a year? YES

Will Mary and Joe still be subject to audits? YES

Will Mary and Joe have to keep any records and reports Congress may dream up? YES

If H.J RES. 16, the “fairtax” companion legislation to repeal the 16th Amendment were adopted by the States, would Congress maintain the authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes? YES! Keep in mind that even if the 16th Amendment were repealed as “promised” under the “fairtax”, Congress would still maintain the authority to lay and collect a tax calculated from income as was laid during the Civil War and upheld in Springer vs. United States which was decided before the 16th Amendment was adopted..

Under the fairtax, would Congress also maintain power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and gains? YES! Congress would maintain authority to lay and collect a tax calculated from profits and gains as was laid under the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909 which was upheld in Flint vs. Stone Tracy decided before the 16th Amendment was adopted.

Will the IRS be closed down as promised under the “fairtax”. YES! But in its place two new tax collecting agencies will be created, the “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales tax Bureau“, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms will also be collecting taxes! And note, the “Excise Tax Bureau” will be there to collect any “excise” taxes Congress may dream up which may be calculated from profits, gains, salaries and incomes, and in addition to the “fair tax”.

Does the “fairtax” propose to send a monthly check to people who are not gainfully employed and on the public dole and would thereby create another “spread the wealth“ entitlement? YES

Now, let us take a look at the “flat income tax” which is another Washington Establishment cooked up scheme to give the illusion of tax reform, but keeps the Marxist tax calculated from “incomes” alive.

The first problem encountered with a flat tax on income is a working definition of “ taxable income”. The current definition of “taxable income” is both arbitrary and capriciously invented from day to day by those who hold political power and it keeps alive Congress’ love affair with class warfare, adjusting what is and what is not taxable “income“ to suit political purposes.

A tax calculated from “income” ___ which I imagine would include earnings realized by our productive members of society ___ is a tax under which government force is used in a manner which burdens and punishes our productive members of society for every increase in their productivity, while it rewards the unproductive members of society by allowing them to escape from shouldering an equal burden in supporting the functions of our federal government.

Keep in mind there was a time in America when everyone was expected to shoulder an equal share in supporting the functions of government A wonderful example of this principle is exhibited in the public laws of Maryland’s Dorchester County, under which all able bodied residents of the county above twenty and under fifty years of age were “compelled to labor two days at least in every year in repairing the roads of said county, with the privilege, however, of furnishing a substitute or paying to the road supervisors seventy-five cents for each day such person may be summoned to labor, the money thus paid to be expended in repairing the roads.”

And the law went on to indicate that “anyone neglecting or refusing to perform such labor, or to provide a substitute, or to pay seventy-five cents per day for each and every day he may be summoned to work, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon trial and conviction before a Justice of the Peace, shall be fined seventy-five cents for each day`s delinquency and costs, and shall stand committed until the fine and costs are paid.___ SEE SHORT vs. STATE OF MARYLAND, decided February 27th, 1895, upholding the law and not violating (a) the 13th or 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, or (b) the 40th section of Art. 3 of the Constitution of Maryland.

And what is today’s standard? Our tyrants in Washington force the productive to pay taxes on incomes so they can spread their wealth and buy votes, but the Washington Establishment does not force their beloved 45 % who pay no income taxes to work for the taxes they get.

Finally, a tax calculated from “income” keeps the federal government's iron fist around the necks of America’s businesses and laboring class people [audits, record keeping, etc.] and also keeps alive a dangerous weapon known to be used by the Washington Establishment against political foes (the threat of audits).

And now, let us take a look a real tax reform, which would force Congress to raise its revenue from taxes laid upon consumption, would end all variables of the Marxist income tax and the class warfare practiced under it, while it would restore economic freedom to America’s businesses and working class people. This and much more can be accomplished by adding the following 32 words to our Constitution:

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

And now, let us couple the above tax reform with a provision to balance the annual budget, as our founding fathers intended!

The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment.

Proposing a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution of the United States.


“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money

NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! And, they would remove the existing chains of taxation which now oppresses America‘s free enterprise system and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!


"SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."

NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


"SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."

NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish a deficit would be:


States’ population

---------------------------- X DEFICIT = STATE’S SHARE

Total U.S. Population

This formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that those states who contribute the lion’s share of the tax are guaranteed a representation in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution, i.e., representation with proportional obligation! And, the class warfare game is no longer available to Congress

"SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."

NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.



"SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect one year after the required number of States have approved it.


Now, the question is, how do we get one of our Tea Party Candidates do get behind returning to our Constitution’s original tax plan?

JWK

Health care by consent of the governed (Article 5) our amendment process --- tyranny by a PROGRESSIVE majority vote in Congress!

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 12
• 13
• 14
• Next ›
• Page