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Need Advice On Liberals(Good Discusssion Topic)

I've have been wondering just like alot of people who are in the same boat that I am. How do you deal with a Raging Liberal if they are you Wife, Husband, Mother, Father, ect? I know people who have asked me that same question, and I have no answer. All I tell them is I have a Wife who is the same way. They all think they know what is best for the country, and think BO is STILL doing a good job. Any idea, opinions, or comebacks for me and others who are in the same boat?

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Permalink Reply by Lumara on July 30, 2009 at 5:15pm
I think it's a lost cause. I've explained to liberals that the proposed health care plan would result in increased costs, lower quality of care, and rationing. They laughed and called ME stupid. If anyone knows of a way to get through, I'd like to hear it, but in my experience their minds are made up that federal health care is good and that's that.
Permalink Reply by Jean Dumont on July 30, 2009 at 5:28pm
It's extremely frustrating because they just can't listen to reason. Like, literally CANNOT listen. Even solid statistics don't faze them so I've stopped trying and if anything political comes up I simply nod, say is that so? and steer the conversation to another topic. It's sad because that should be our goal - to get the truth out there - but trying to get the truth through to a raging liberal is like hitting your head on a brick wall over and over again.
Permalink Reply by Kevin Zelhart on July 30, 2009 at 7:37pm
The best way that I have found is by using questions causing them to actually think about their answers.
You can lead them in the answers, but stating facts will rarely do it, unless they have the wherewithall to do the appropriate research themselves. If they actually have to think of their answers, and not just regurgitate someone's talking points, they will sometimes start to realize their position is untenable. My father, who had praise for Reagan when Reagan was in office, receded as he grew older, and more praised the dems. After we had been in Iraq for a couple of years, he began railing on Bush with the whole "Bush lied" line. I called him on it. "What did he lie about?" I asked. He could not come up with anything I could not dispell. The arguement died quickly, which was a suprise for me because my father could argue for hours with a rock, it was his pastime.
If you really get a liberal where he realizes he has no chance, often they will resort to an ad homenim attack, of call their oppoenent a "Nazi" without actually realizing that Nazis were socialists.
Permalink Reply by Sherry Phillips on July 31, 2009 at 6:45am
I have this problem with my aunt back in Virginia. She's a dyed in the wool Southern Democrat and a very sweet Southern Lady. However, she has always voted Democrat and thinks that Republicans are "for the rich folks". My cousins (her children) and I have all tried to tell her, "This isn't the Democrat Party you used to vote for!" All of my cousins are conservatives. I have asked her, "Do you believe in abortion? Do you believe all of these illegal immigrants should just be allowed to stay? Do you believe in legalizing gay marriage? Do you believe the government should control your life?" I don't bombard her with these questions, but slide them into the conversation. I don't know if it's doing any good, but I do know she did not vote for Obama last fall.
Permalink Reply by Vern Shotwell on July 31, 2009 at 7:19am
This remains a problem with no real solution. Kevin's approach is most logical, but usually doesn't seem to work that well! Logic simply does not work when dealing with people who think getting everything for nothing is a great idea and seems possible to them!
These are people whose minds are closed to logic. Won't read, won't think. All you can accomplish is to make them mad; no advantage to that. Best advice? Stay away from politics altogether with them! And, you soon find yourself avoiding them when possible. It's a shame, really, but you must protect your own sanity and blood-pressure!
Permalink Reply by Dan Garner on July 31, 2009 at 11:06am
On almost every issue that we are currently debating it comes down to: Personal responsibility and freedom vs. collectivism and group think. Most of us here are “freedom minded” and realize that giving up our rights for security will net us no rights and little security. Even if a liberal doesn’t understand they are supporting a socialist/Marxist/collective policy they just want “everyone to have something…what is so wrong with that?”…do you want people to die on the street? Don’t answer “no…that’s silly…” and go off on the latest blog you read about why socialized medicine won’t work. Ask a them a question….OK….how will that work? “well everyone will have insuance”……I thought you wanted health care…..insurance is different….”I mean….we all can go to the hospital and not worry about the cost”…..ok….so how will that work? “well if everyone just paid a little more we could do it”…OK…how much? “ well….ya know…(insert latest talking point from MSNBC)”…..OK…so if all of that were true and our system is bad and going to make us broke…why can’t we just fix “that” instead of modeling after another countries system that has different, but probably worse problems?.....
Make them defend themselves. You know the answers in your mind…..stop trying to answer the questions for them….and make them break their own argument by taking “obama or bush” out of it….always make it neutral: Not about Canada vs. U.S. Me vs. you……..make it: This system vs. that system….person A vs. B….so you can stop the “tangents” and argue the issue.
“Everyone should have free health care” How can something be free?....”no no…I mean it shouldn’t cost people anything to see a doctor”….OK….take the Dr. out of it “sister”….you want a “service” and someone has to provide it to you for free?...”well….no, I mean…..the insurance companies are ripping people off”….OK, but stay with me here: You said “everyone should have free health care”…..last time I went to the Doctor/Hospital there was a building, parking, people, equipment…then the pharmacy, testing, etc….how do those exist without paying for them? “well the system is broken…and…”….no….you said “Free”!....”well we can’t go on the way we are it’s going to bankrupt us”…OK…so how do you pay for something then? What is wrong with the system we have now?

They will answer and all it comes down to in this example is we don’t have a “health care” problem….we have a “who’s going to pay for it besides me” problem. The CARE is fine….yes the costs are out of whack, but without going on too long……all arguments are this basic rules of math or logic and you have to learn which line to take. In health care the debate is emotional, but without profit there is no technology. Our current system has too many “non-contributors” vs. “paying customers” and 0% + 100% does not equal 100%....it’s 50%. So if you need a Dollar to pay for an item and half the people don’t pay how do you make up the difference? Government mandate? Change the laws of economics? Change the laws of Thermodynamics (energy debate)?
Do you know the facts? The best place to start is read: The Bill of Rights, The US Constitution, The Communist Manifesto, Rules for Radicals. If you have XM/SIRIUS listen to Andrew Wilkow…he is one of the best at breaking arguments down to the basic logical conclusion or go to www.wilkowmajority.com. I think…..I feel…..I would like to see…..are not factual statements. Hope and Change are not policy statements. At it’s core people want to win arguments even if they are wrong…you have to figure out how to break things down to their most basic elements.
None of this “Feels or thinks” and that just doesn’t compute for many people (regardless of political flavor) sometimes. We all want people to have a good quality of life….but in American their rights do not supersede mine. We were all created equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the PERSUIT of happiness!.....not the guarantee of any of them if we hand power over to another person. BREAK their argument….and make yours un-breakable based on logic and fact.

Just my 2 cents! God Bless America!
Permalink Reply by Bruce Yearian on August 1, 2009 at 7:45am
Face to face is the only way to get them out of the cult, which is exactly what it is. Ask questions and make them define to you why they "know" it is such a great thing. You want facts not their opinion and don't make it an attack on Obama but the healthcare plan itself.
When they can't defend it with facts, you start coming with facts like gaining access to YOUR bank account info and "show" them that part of the bill. Show them who will be deciding what healthcare they get. Show them and don't tell them. Let them know how it will effect THEM. People can understand something that effects THEM.

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