Friends Trying to Influence Gay Rights on Me
I am a church going, very conservative straight man. I bear no ill will against someone who is non-Christian or gay. Recently, I read an article about Frank Kameny and posted it on another website. Before long, I was being blasted by, not random liberals, but some of my closest friends. I also posted a comment about the term "gay civil rights" and asked if it should even be a term since civil rights has always included race and sex issues, not choice issues. I had three friends actually telling me it was okay for people to be gay and even as far as God being okay with it. I randomly had one of my old professors join the discussion against me. They all had this mindset that I hate people who are gay. I hate the lifestyle. It is wrong and there are many things that that lifestyle can cause that are bad. However, I have had gay friends in my past and do not hate them. Just their life choices. And I suppose that is a point I would like to make. Even if homosexuality were a genetic thing (and it has yet to be proven that it is), it is still a choice to live it, as is being an alcoholic is a choice (whereas there are genetic indications).
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with these friends who keep attacking me on this issue? I post these articles in order for people to read and know the truth and see what's going on out in the world, but they only read the headline and attack me.
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with these friends who keep attacking me on this issue? I post these articles in order for people to read and know the truth and see what's going on out in the world, but they only read the headline and attack me.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Wayne Litchford on -
Leviticus is the book of God's laws. When you break one of God's laws it is a sin. That is what sin is...breaking God's law.
Read Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Therefore, engaging in homosexuality is to break God's law and to sin.
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Permalink Reply by Lucy Brackett on -
I would stick with your core traditional beliefs, and as you feel led, and when the opportunities arise, to remind these friends that you detest the lifestyle that is an abomination in the your Lord God's eyes---and the scripture supports this. However, like you've said here, to remind them that you do not hate the person. You might have to look for those opportunities. We just read out of the book of James today the following: "Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." -James 4:4
When I'm in a conversation with people who think "gay is okay", I remind them that there is nothing gay about the lifestyle. That lifestyle has the highest incidence of disease, and their number of suicides, and addictions to alcohol and drugs is disproportionate to the rest of the general population. Two guys I knew from my youth, and who went into the gay lifestyle, had very tragic deaths related to their lifestyle choice: One a suicide fueled by alcohol which led to a gun to the head, and the other died of AIDS complications. Both had absent fathers. Another childhood friend went gay too, and he had a miserable relationship with his dad in his youth. His father died a few years later, and they had never reconciled.
My own sister who is a friend to gays and so "open-minded" blew my mind in '08 when she made the statement that "gays should be able to marry" and those opposed to them were "homophobic". She's in CA where the gays are trying to overturn Measure 8. It especially blows my mind because our parents were very traditional, and marriage was sacred. Progressives change their views with the times, and as they say, they're being "tolerant"; but God's word remains constant throughout the ages. The analogy of Jesus being the "rock" of ages, and all else as being "shifting sand" is a good illustration to use.
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Permalink Reply by kert w blackwood on -
You are so right on Lucy!
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Permalink Reply by John R. Salverda on -
Thy this arguement;
It is not very compassionate to advocate homosexual marriage, when you consider the fact that there may be a hereditary aspect to homosexuality. A life commitment to a homosexual relationship is a commitment to voluntary sterilization. If the concept of homosexual marriage were a sinister plot, it's goal would be genocide, the systematic destruction of a culture group, our homosexual community! If you are a homosexual you should ask yourself, how did you get here, and will there be more of you in the future world. I heartfully hope that homosexuals don't make the same mistake that the abortion advocates of the late sixties made. They fought tooth and nail for the right to abort their own offspring, they fought so hard that we finally gave in and let them have their way. Where is their fervor now? Abortion itself is dying out along with those who had the greatest need and tendency to use it. Give them enough rope.
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Permalink Reply by kert w blackwood on
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John, I think that I have never heard the argument you presented put more succinctly! Bravo!
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Permalink Reply by John R. Salverda on
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Thanks for the compliment, I am proud of this one. I thought it up myself, I swear to it. I never heard anyone say this, it occurred to me while I was watching a nature show about monkeys. Only the alpha male could pass on his genes, most of the other guys sat around mastrobating and having homosexual sex (apparently related activities). Then there were a rebellious few guys who were sneaking around behind the alpha male's back with members of the hareem. I thought, I would have to be one of those rebels. Suddenly I had personified the situation, and the arguement, pointing out the true value of our sex drive, was realized.
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Permalink Reply by Tony Dreher on
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Josh,
Just so you know, a quick search on Google scholar for "genetic evidence of homosexuality" reveals there is in fact a good deal of evidence favoring an explanation of homosexuality as a genetic predisposition. Is it proven? No, but science tends not to prove things in an absolute 100% fashion. It's part of what makes science so awesome. There's no faith required; you know right up front that it might be wrong. Of course, there is an element of choice in it, just like there's an element of choice in picking what you're going to have for dinner. However, if you don't like tomatoes, it's very unlikely that you'll ever have tomatoes for dinner.
Your alcohol analogy is somewhat flawed. It assumes that homosexuality is inherently harmful to the individual who practices it, when in fact there's no evidence linking homosexuality to ill health. This isn't to say that there hasn't been studies in the past saying that homosexuals suffer from some sort of depression nor am I trying to deny that there have been groups of homosexuals in the past that engaged in unsafe, self-destructive behavior. However, both of these(and whatever other accusations that might be levied) are explained by factors not relating to the individual's sexual orientation, be it the social ostracism that comes from growing up different from those around you or in latter case, a tendency for people that live in big cities to engage in unsafe, self-destructive behavior.
Finally, in terms of having gay rights forced on you, I sort of agree with you. Mostly, I have a problem with marriage being recognized by the government at all. Moreover, that married people get tax breaks or special recognition in any way is deplorable. I certainly hope that the members of the Tea Party that are married have the moral compass to deny any special treatment they might receive for being married. Get government out of marriage altogether I say. That way people can have whatever faith they choose to follow handle such nonsense and the rest of us won't have to suffer for it.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin Zelhart on -
No, nor do I want that same government pushing it to my kids, much in the same fashion that i do not want them teaching my kids to pray, or any number of other things I believe to be in my arena of responsibility. They have a hard enough time getting them to do the simple tasks of reading, writing, doing math and learning our history, why would I entrudt them to more important things?
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Permalink Reply by Tio Tom on -
Patrick,
It is not the issue of right or wrong. I honestly believe that a vast majority of Americans fully understand that homosexuality exists and has existed likely from the beginning of time in the human experience. Who is to say why. That is in the hands of GOD. It is the relationship of the state who now takes it upon itself to legislate marriage that is the probelm. I am sure you have read the numerous posts here. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. TBQH the aspect of sex is not mentioned in the discussion of this union. Perhaps procreation is implied. (Not a bible student here). As has been asked many times. If existing laws provide two people who choose to in effect co-habitate without any contract. If these laws offer the same legal advantages that are afforded individuals that in effect are classified as married, then the question remains. Where and why should the definition of Marriage as established in the bible be challenged. This as you can easily see by the many posts here is the issue. It is as if the beliefs of those that live their lives following relifgious doctrine as laid out by the bible are to be forced to abandon their own convictions. I personally do not subsribe to the condemnation of GAYS. It is not my place to Judge. That right belongs to GOD exclusively. But in effect the fact that Gays demand their right to enter into Marriage in effect is their judging my and others beliefs as invalid. Do you see how this in effect is hypocracy?
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Permalink Reply by John R. Salverda on
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I don't care if you are gay, mabey you are but you keep it a secret. I might be gay, or not, I don't go around telling people my sexual preferences. It is a shame about your friend. I said you can marry or love anyone you want. It is a shame about Liberace, and Charles Nelson Riley, and Rock Hudson, I loved those guys, I did not know they were gay at the time, and I don't care now but, it is a shame that they did not flood the world with descendants what a waste of great genes. Oh by the way I do respect others, including you and your opinion, this is just mine, and don't worry, nobody listens to me anyway. I am sorry if I have upset you Patrick and thank you for your reply.
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Permalink Reply by John R. Salverda on
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It is not very compassionate to advocate homosexual marriage, when you consider the fact that there may be a hereditary aspect to homosexuality. A life commitment to a homosexual relationship is a commitment to voluntary sterilization. If the concept of homosexual marriage were a sinister plot, it's goal would be GENOCIDE, the systematic destruction of a culture group, our homosexual community! I am definatly opposed to that. Your position Patrick seems to be; give them enough rope. If there were a group of people whose taste bud's were perverted into wanting to eat cardboard, and they were dying out because of malnutrition, would you fight for their right to eat any thing they want? Surely they have that right, would you pass a law so saying that we have to let them, well, die out?
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Permalink Reply by MR THUMPER on -
It's like this joshua, there's nothing natural about homosexuality. It's nasty, disease ridden and the word pervert really came into play after the lifestyle started to be so called "excepted". I have done a lot of const work around the worse examples of the type. And i have told people that if they were like they are now when Disney started his empire God have mercy for all those kids that didn't know who or what was gawking at them. Anyway i agree with you, if they can't accept you becauuse you don't want to agree or accept the lifestyle it's their problem not yours. Carry on brother...
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