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The fallacy of a fair tax!

Who in this nation is so hallucinate to think that there are anyways know in a representative government, based on democratic elections; could possibly result in what is either fair, or flat, or anything else taxation?

The problem is, and has always been is that those who pay the wealth—pay the taxes—are by the legislation of government forced to spend it on areas they would never if it was their choice pay.

So should we not use the principle of “private property” to determine where the “personal property” stolen in the name of taxation—have some designation where the money can be spent?

Would it be that hard? I don’t think so with the modern wonder of computers; and it would actually result in fairness for those who are paying the tax bill for this nation.

What is the current problem? Today we are using—this is actually a lie—but we pretend we are using taxed funds to pay for whatever services that the government “unions” those of the political parties who wish to compromise, resulting in the worse form of government known to mankind.

Let’s make the wealth—taken in taxation—from the people, retained under the control of the individual—not for the desire of the political parties to retain power spending government taxation as Alexis de Tocqueville told us “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”

Here is how we do it. We have a check box on what the money stolen in the form of taxation sent to the government with what it can be spent on. Would this not be simple? Then we would find that the choice of those who pay—dictate what is funded. Think of it, there would be no more earmarks for political paybacks for the big bundlers of wealth to elect political candidates. For the budget would be determined by those the people, the paying people, decide where the money goes. As it seem that 100% of the Democratic voters don’t pay taxes, increasing the investment—tongue in cheek—this nation makes in welfare may have 51% of the vote…as our president received, but only 2% of the taxes paid in. That’ll really shrink the scope and size of the altruistic—non-constitutional—programs this nation has; to a level of funding where developing employable skills, perhaps desiring schools be used to learn, instead of baby-sitting feral children, and staying off drugs would be make a more appropriate and desirable decision.  

 To allow the political parties to continue this destruction of our nation—and it’s both parties, the socialist Republicans, and the communist Democrats—will never preserve this wonder of government or our design.

If there is to be a revolution—let it be to once again remove our nation from a totalitarian sovereignty…the same as our beginning.           

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The government is making 3 to 4 times the profit on tobacco and liqour then the companies that manufacture these items. Where is the money going??? The tobacco tax was supposed to be to pay for anti smoking adds. With what they are bringing in we should have an anti smoking add every 5 minutes. The government is a corrupt evil anti american communist crime syndicate!!!!!!!!!!!

We have a formidable enemy in Big Government and like an Ugly Growth, it is eating us alive!

Anybody for some surgery? This is one we CAN DO ourselves!!!!  NO healthcare involved, just

a WILL TO SURVIVE and a few common sense leaders!

What do you mean for surgery? We've tried electing new people. They just get trapped into the same-old-same-old behaviors of the rascals we threw out. There is not a single person in DC who is truly honest. It's like a roomful of dogs with fleas and each is busy scratching everyone's else backs to get his own scratched. We (or at least I) don't believe our "democratic republic" should operate like that. But where to start?

Throw out all the rascals at one time? Enforce a cessation of lobbying? States unite and secede? A new Revolutionary War? I don't know. I just know this absolutely is NOT the country our founders thought they were creating. It is NOT the country I grew up in. It is not the country my 10th great grandfather, my 4th great grandfather, my grandfather and my father fought for. It is not the country my x-husband and our 3 children, went into the military to protect, nor is it the country my current husband went into the military to protect.

I want my country back. What do I have to do to get it?

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.
 
-- Greek philosopher Plato (c. 428-348 B.C.)
 
Riggs:
 
I think most of us do not realize that we are not really participating in politics, or at least that whatever we are doing is not inherently effective.  I believe my formal and private study/scholarship has discovered some solutions - even a time-tested one.  Would you be willing to run for precinct committeeman in your locality?  Most people don't know what this is, and hence the current state of affairs.          --jmf

Linny.... I am afraid that you are correct my friend, after this last (gimmie) election (that was made to just look good and not really to win) that the options left are fewer than ever.   Just about the only thing that the folks in DC..both groups, the R's and D's will even remotely understand now is WE THE PEOPLE in the streets in record mass numbers.....and on multiple occasions.  It may not be nice and or it may not be pretty, but will be the only way WE THE PEOPLE get our message thru that we expect the folks at the top to live EXACTLY like all of us and by the very same rules that they pass.  All that is up there now should be stripped of all health benefits and retirements and anything else they have passed for themselves and if not then they should be forcibly be removed.

The author correctly points out that spending is the problem. But he forgets that our Constitution created a "representative republic". That means that the elected representatives in Congress get to make most of the decisions. He wants to make this a "direct democracy".

There's nothing wrong with that. If that's what you want, then get an amendment through the House and passed by the states to do that. But until that time, we have a "representative republic".

Therefore, the way to control their spending is to limit what they have to spend. A much easier amendment to pass would be a balanced budget amendment. Such an amendment would not allow them to spend (including interest on the debt) any more than they take in, during the fiscal year.

Now, with spending under control, we could easily get taxes under control with the FairTax, that really would be FAIR to ALL. Every individual would pay the exact same percentage at the cash register and every citizen and legal resident would receive the exact same cost-of-living prebate, based on family size. Everyone is treated exactly the same… well, except for illegal aliens, who would not get the prebate. They would pay the full 23% on everything and get nothing back, which would put them at a decided disadvantage, in looking for jobs, since their cost of living would be higher here, than in Mexico. That 23% disadvantage would cause them to begin to self-deport, leaving job openings for US citizens. More citizens working would CHOOSE to BUY more and in turn, pay more tax, increasing the government coffers, without raising taxes. QED.

But it all begins with a balanced budget amendment, that would constitutionally limit what the government spends, to an amount no more than what they take in.

The problem with our progressive tax system is that it doesn't work in its present form.

Taxes are intended to fund the mandated functions of the government as described in Article 1, Section 8. The problem we have is that the Liberals/Progressives consider taxes to be a system of punishments and rewards. Punishments against those who succeed and create commerce, rewards for the "disadvantaged" regardless of how they got there. This is obvious as the class-warfare/envy meme is promoted by Barrack Hussein and the unwashed masses submit to it as it benefits them.

A system of 75,000+ pages of tax code and over 1,100 different forms is basically an accounting nightmare. The beneficiaries of this behemoth legislation, that evolves daily, are the lobbyists and special interest groups that can afford the "influence" of our corrupt policymakers. Between 1986 and 2005 Congress passed over 14,400 amendments to the tax code, this equates to almost 3 changes every day for 19 straight years. There have been about 4,400 tax code changes in the last 10 years. There were approximately 580 changes in 2010 alone.  

This is the mirage everyone sees when some of the illiterate masses pretend that changing a few loopholes, deductions, withholds or other manipulations will actually make a difference. Yes, it will, until the corporations, banks or wealthy hire the next batch of math or economics geeks from Harvard, MIT, Berkley or Wharton’s to find or create the next generation of tax avoidances.

We have tried this irrational system for a century and we still can’t get it right. We have tried virtually every tax rate from 1% to 97% and from three to sixteen different brackets, to no avail. Regardless of our tax rates we historically collect revenues of about 18.1% of GDP. So why do we persist with it?

Politics.

Look how well Barrack Hussein has orchestrated this current fiscal “crisis” known as the fiscal cliff. We’ve known this was inevitable for 4 years and critical that it be significantly addressed since last August. Of course it’s left to be dealt with during the lame duck session of Congress. Convenience and propaganda can be exercised fully at this point.

No government entity should strike as much fear in the hard working American citizens as the IRS does. In each of the last 2 years the IRS received 110 million calls from taxpayers and they were unable to answer 25% of the questions. Are you getting more confident about our current tax code you all cherish so much?

It’s time to retire this outdated tax system. We are functioning in the 21st century under a 20th century system. It’s time to eliminate the progressive system and adopt a Flat or Fair Tax system. We have serious systemic defects in our government. Reforms are needed in trade agreements, taxes, regulations, immigration, energy policy and most importantly, our K-12 education system.

Unfortunately until we rid ourselves of the statist occupying pour White House we will be subjected to more of his “fundamental transformation” of America.

All we can do is try and disrupt as much of his agenda as possible.

Hopefully Tammy Faye Boehner has the balls to do it.

 

 

I would encourage everyone on TPN to check out http://fairtax.org and even if you don't agree fully with them, I think you'll discover some interesting, common sense ideas to fix this nations taxation system. There are solutions to this progressive tax debacle. It's about finding enough leaders with the guts to implement them.

You're right, Richie. I have studied the FairTax and I believe it would put us back on the road to financial solvency in a very short period of time. However, as you say, finding leaders in DC who want what's best for the country, as opposed to what's best for them, is the problem.

I just ran across a Yahoo article that begins, "The French are fleeing. A spate of proposed tax hikes is leading hundreds of wealthy French to consider leaving the country...". And I just read that of 16,000 millionaires in Britain a year ago, only 6,000 are left today because of a big tax increase due to kick in soon.

So, Odumbo and Congress, you say you want to make the "rich" pay their "fair share"? If you do, watch what happens as your new tax "revenue" leaves the country.

Pass the FairTax and tax revenue will skyrocket, as will jobs and the economy.

Obama is just spending and taxing  - spending and taxing.

Mr. Gaver:
We no longer have a representative Republic: That ended in 1913.
Go here: http://www.meetup.com/westend912project/messages/boards/thread/8036...

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